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On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 07:53:59 -0500, action@madpeace.org wrote:
&gt;  I propose we just have a picket line. The following things need to &gt;  be
done:

I missed this whole conversation but I have a comment anyway.

With all due respect, the folks on the co-ordinating committee may not be
aware of this, but I would like to note that the action committee has a plan
for emergency actions, including each of us having specific jobs assigned
for every detail.

If someone unilaterally comes up with a whole new plan at the last moment,
that means starting over from scratch to (1) discuss the plan and (2) assign
people to implement it--all within a few hours. In my opinion: huge waste of
time.

If we are to have emergency actions (which I understand is an if) we need to
stick to the plan--or make a new one *in advance*--so that the only thing
left to do when the action is called, is implement it. I am not attached to
the existing plan, but whatever the plan is we shouldn't try to alter it at
the last second.

Discussion? Disagreement? Pies in the face? My intent is not to offend but
to be efficient and avoid saddling any individual with an overwhelming
burden of organizing everything.

Regarding the very concept of emergency actions, I think the AC was thinking
about events that would be so overwhelmingly dramatic/traumatic that there
would be an overwhelming desire to get out there and do something. I
definitely don't think anyone was imagining that there should be emergency
actions at every turn. Probably we should remove "invasion" from the list of
actions and stick to (1) extension of bombing to a new country, (2) murder
or arson in our community or (3) another massive violent attack on US soil
with instant mass casualties. I'm also open to dropping the whole concept.
Whatever you all think.

X
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Welcome to the Madpeace-discuss@madpeace.org mailing list!

To post to this list, send your email to:

  madpeace-discuss@madpeace.org

General information about the mailing list is at:

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If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to
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You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to:

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with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the
quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions.

You must know your password to change your options (including changing
the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:

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If you forget your password, don't worry, you will receive a monthly
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are, and how to unsubscribe or change your options.  There is also a
button on your options page that will email your current password to
you.

You may also have your password mailed to you automatically off of the
Web page noted above.

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I have added Norah to the coord comt mail list.

X


&gt;From: "X" &lt;X&gt;
&gt;To: "X" &lt;X&gt;, "X"
&gt;&lt;X&gt;, &lt;announce@madpeace.org&gt;, &lt;discuss@madpeace.org&gt;,
&gt;&lt;X&gt;, &lt;X&gt;, &lt;X&gt;,
&gt;&lt;X&gt;, &lt;X&gt;, &lt;X&gt;
&gt;Subject: [MAPC-Announce] International Committee
&gt;Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 01:11:05 -0600
&gt;
&gt;I apologize for the gap in time since the meeting last week - my hard drive
&gt;couldn't take the volume of emails since 911 and bombed itself back to the
&gt;stone age.  Several things are irretrievable, including a couple of email
&gt;addresses given to me after the Tuesday 10/27 general meeting.  I am sorry
&gt;if I am missing some folks.
&gt;
&gt;The International Committee (name in process) was formed at the October 27
&gt;general meeting.  the focus of the group will be to bring Central Asian
&gt;voices to the Madison area, coordinate humanitarian aid, coordinate local
&gt;participation in international days of action, provide a liaison to
&gt;national/international organizing efforts, track international response to
&gt;US actions,  communicate an American viewpoint different from the official
&gt;government/corporate/media response, and to promote international solutions
&gt;for international problems.
&gt;
&gt;That's ambitious, and we need your help.
&gt;
&gt;Please e-mail me at X if you are interested in joining
&gt;this committee.  We are considering an alternate Tuesday meeting time, in
&gt;the weeks when MAPC is not meeting.  Is this a good time for you who are
&gt;interested?
&gt;
&gt;We are looking forward to a lot of exciting projects.
&gt;
&gt;Peace,
&gt;
&gt;X
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_______________________________________________
coordination@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc

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              <text>IN THIS MESSAGE: The Liberty for US War Criminals Act; Pakistan Panics Over Threat to Arsenal; The War We Cannot Win; War on Terror Becomes War on Afghanistan
http://www.ahram.org.eg/weekly/2001/558/4war1.htm
Al-Ahram Weekly Online        Issue No.558              1 - 7 November 2001
Alienable Rights
     The American Service-members Protection Act (ASPA) authorises 
     the US to use force to "liberate" any US or allied persons detained on 
     behalf of the proposed International Criminal Court (ICC), which will
be 
     based in The Hague, Netherlands.
     By Amira Howeidy 
 We all knew it was coming. Last Friday, US President George W Bush signed
an anti-terrorism bill that proposes sweeping new powers for the FBI,
extending the agency's ability to search citizens, wire-tap telephone lines
and eavesdrop on the Internet. The period of detention allowed for a foreign
citizen suspected of terrorist activities has also be increased. The bill --
which has raised concerns over the meaning of civil liberties in the post 11
September age -- came as no surprise to rights advocates in the US and
elsewhere. 
The US-led alliance's "war on terrorism," now in the fourth week of its
offensive against Afghanistan, bypassed internationally-recognised channels
of legitimacy such as the United Nations and its Security Council. The
result: hundreds or perhaps thousands of Afghan civilians may have been
killed (no accurate numbers have been released because the Pentagon says it
still doesn't know). But the "war on terror" has meant more than the loss of
innocent lives: it has included a myriad of other measures. The blocking of
information and images from the war in Afghanistan from reaching the
American public, for example. There has also been widespread discrimination
against Arabs (and other people of Middle Eastern appearance) both by
officials (at Western airports and airlines) and by the Western public.
Approximately 900 "suspects" -- most of whom are Arabs-- have been arrested
in relation to the 11 September attacks. In the struggle against "terror,"
several laws have been bypassed, leading to what civil liberties advocates
have described as a serious threat to human rights. 
The media debate on the choice between "freedom" and "security" -- which is
raging in Germany and elsewhere -- reflects the chilling options now facing
Western societies. But has the choice been made already? 
FBI and Justice Department investigators, frustrated by their failure to
extract confessions from four suspects, are contemplating resorting to
"pressure" according to a report in the Washington Post on 21 October. Among
the alternative strategies under discussion are extracting information using
drugs or other pressure tactics, such as those occasionally employed by
Israeli interrogators, according to the article. Another idea is to
extradite suspected terrorists to US-allied countries in which security
services can employ threats to family members or resort to torture. And last
Sunday, the same newspaper reported that the CIA is contemplating pursuing
an assassination policy of individuals -- a policy that could extend beyond
Bin Laden and members of Al-Qa'ida. 
Meanwhile, the US State Department -- taking advantage of the frenzy and
confusion that followed the terrorist acts -- endorsed the American
Service-members Protection Act (ASPA) on November 5. The legislation
authorises the US to use force to "liberate" any US or allied persons
detained on behalf of the proposed International Criminal Court (ICC), which
will be based in The Hague, Netherlands. It also prohibits US military
assistance to those states that ratify the ICC treaty except for NATO
members and some major non-NATO allies. 
The New York based Human Rights Watch described the new law as an attempt to
undermine the establishment of a permanent war crimes court. "The United
States is forging a global coalition against terrorism, and the State
Department has just endorsed a bill that authorises an invasion of the
Netherlands," said Richard Dicker, director of the International Justice
Programme at HRW. "This makes no sense. It hardly seems like a good moment
for the US to be threatening sanctions against dozens of countries simply
because they want to bring to justice the perpetrators of crimes against
humanity." 
For many, it is difficult to find any sense in this new reality. The US
Coalition's use of force, for example, appears to be contrary to established
international law. 
This is the case according to William Schabas, director of the Irish Centre
for Human Rights. "The use of force is prohibited by the United Nations
Charter (art. 2 (4)), except in two circumstances: self defence (art. 51)
and Security Council action under Chapter VII (art. 42)," says Schabas. "It
does not allow the use of force for the purpose of "retaliation." Schabas
told Al- Ahram Weekly that "the US-led alliance seems to find support for
its action by invoking the right of self-defence rather than the right to
retaliate. This is a broad and exaggerated interpretation of the right of
self-defence." 
Normally, he argued, a person (or a state) acting in genuine self-defence is
very clear in explaining and justifying its behaviour on this basis. "But
the US and UK, with their talk of retaliation, reprisal, 'bringing
terrorists to justice' and so on, invoke grounds that are not really
compatible with the concept of self-defence." 
Schabas acknowledged that the US does enjoy self-defence rights but pointed
out that its actions must be conditioned by "proportionality" and by what is
necessary to protect itself from attack. In his words, "the US seems to be
taking a view that in the name of the war on terrorism it has the right to
attack (or 'counterattack') any country it suspects of being insufficiently
unsympathetic to terrorism. In effect, this is the legal window dressing of
the pax Americana, a justification to attack any country that the US doesn't
like, and at any time." To Schabas, one of the unfortunate consequences of
all of this is the "marginalisation of the United Nations, which should in
fact be taking the lead according to its noble role under the UN Charter." 
Perhaps it was with this super-power mentality in mind that the US Congress
adopted the anti- terrorism bill. According to the American Civil Liberties
Union Freedom Network (ACLU), "the bill was adopted in near record time with
only one public hearing and little debate." 
"All this will have terrible repercussions," was the response of
International Law Professor Kamal Abul-Magd. "If the law doesn't give you
protection, you are more likely to take the law in your hands." 
To observers in the Middle East, the new US laws seem to be a glaring
paradox. In this part of the world, the anti-terrorism bill sounded like
all- too-familiar a tune. "It's almost identical to the 'emergency laws'
faithfully adopted by Third World regimes," says Dawoud Al-Shoryan, a
columnist for the London-based Arabic daily Al- Hayat. For many years, the
US State Department's Human Rights desk has itself issued annual reports
clearly condemning such governments and their "freedom tying" policies,
human rights abuses and violations in the name of the emergency law. To
El-Shoryan and many others, it seems like the US is now taking such
"backward regimes" as their role model. He expressed fear that the American
"emergency law" will eventually "become an incubator that will lead to
similar laws being issued in several other countries, if Washington seeks to
extend its application within its anti-terrorism coalition." 
It may not be all doom and gloom, however. After all, says Rights Activist
Gasser Abdel- Razek, a stronger global movement seems to be emerging as a
result of the September 11 attacks. "It will take different forms,
understandably, such as anti-war, human rights, environmental, and
anti-globalisation," said Abdel-Razek. "But it will definitely be more
critical of Western (that is, US) hegemony, even if its supporters don't
call it that." 
====================================================
The Sunday Times (London)                                November 4, 2001 
Pakistan panics over threat to arsenal
     By Tony Allen-Mills Washington
Fears of fundamentalist upheaval in Pakistan have aroused concerns in
Washington that part or all of Islamabad's arsenal of nuclear weapons may
have to be moved to China for safekeeping from foreign attack.
Pakistan's military establishment was said last week to have been shaken by
reports that America, India or Israel might be planning pre-emptive strikes
on nuclear sites to prevent weapons falling into fundamentalist hands. "The
generals are panic-stricken," said one Pakistani source.
The threat to weapons widely regarded as the Pakistan military's "crown
jewels" has forced Islamabad to consider what one American expert described
as the "ultimate worst-case scenario" of removing warheads to China,
Pakistan's closest strategic ally in the region. The prospect that loose
warheads might be loaded onto helicopters or moved around a region foaming
with fundamentalist turmoil is adding to fears in Washington that the war in
Afghanistan might provoke a nuclear crisis.
Abdul Sattar, the Pakistani foreign minister, insisted last week the arsenal
was secure. But Washington officials have expressed mounting alarm that any
coup attempt against General Pervez Musharraf, the military president, might
put Pakistan's nuclear arsenal at risk.
Pakistani generals were appalled by one authoritative American report last
week that an elite Pentagon undercover unit, trained to disarm nuclear
weapons, was exploring plans for a mission inside Pakistan. "Every paranoid
fear they have had over the past 20 years about people coming to get our
missiles is suddenly coming to the fore," said Zia Mian, a Pakistani
physicist and authority on the nuclear programme.
China's nuclear relations with Pakistan have long been the focus of
controversy. Chinese scientists are believed to have played a key role in
developing Pakistan's nuclear programme in the early 1980s. The two
countries share a mistrust of India, which has also developed nuclear
weapons.
In the 1990s relations between Beijing and Washington were strained when
American officials discovered that China had supplied Islamabad with
magnetic components for a centrifuge used in enriching uranium, a material
used in warheads. US experts believe that Pakistan possesses between 30 and
50 warheads. Islamabad has also developed facilities for making
weapons-grade plutonium.
The precise locations of Pakistan's nuclear weapons are highly secret.
Several Washington sources said last week that senior Pakistani officers had
been forced to consider a range of scenarios, from thefts of weapon
materials to US bombing raids on nuclear facilities. The arrest in Pakistan
of three nuclear scientists with alleged Taliban sympathies heightened
concern that bomb-making secrets may have leaked to Afghanistan.
But even under extreme duress, several US sources said, many elements of the
Pakistani military would resist surrendering custody of their warheads to
China.
The risks of any deal with China are obvious. China is certain to be deeply
wary of being linked to fundamentalist conflict. Yet American experts
believe that Beijing represents the only haven that Pakistan would dare to
trust.
In a bid to defuse concern, US officials are understood to have offered
Pakistan high-tech assistance to improve the security of missile vaults and
update both command and control communications, and the multiple-code
custody arrangements that theoretically prevent rogue missile launches.
The issue was discussed by General Colin Powell, the US secretary of state,
during his recent visit to Pakistan. A State Department official said last
week Washington was "confident that Pakistan is taking steps to assure the
safety of these (nuclear) assets".
But other American sources said Pakistan was reluctant to accept US
technology for fear that it might be bugged by the CIA in order to establish
the whereabouts of warheads.
The threat that Osama Bin Laden may acquire nuclear bomb-making materials is
weighing heavily on American officials.
"Nobody in the Bush administration wants to be held responsible if Al-Qaeda
gets a nuke," said George Perkovich, an Asian nuclear programme expert, who
has urged the State Department to include China in talks on Pakistan's
nuclear problems. "They are working their asses off on this," he said. 
=======================================================
http://www.msnbc.com/news/652509.asp#BODY
November 5, 2001
Priority: Pakistan's Nukes
     If Taliban sympathizers overthrow Pervez Musharraf's regime, 
     U.S. Marines are standing by to move in
     By John Barry, Newsweek International
Nov. 12 issue - The 2,200 troops of the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit are
cooped up on the assault ship USS Peleliu, presumably itching for action. If
they ever go ashore, it's as likely to be in Pakistan as Afghanistan. Given
serious trouble in Pakistan - if, say, President Pervez Musharraf were
overthrown by forces friendly to the Taliban and Osama bin Laden - the
Marines would be charged with protecting and evacuating Americans and other
Westerners. But sources have told Newsweek the Marines could also be sent on
a more momentous and desperate mission: safeguarding Pakistanís nuclear
weapons and materials, to keep them away from bin Laden.
Whether the Marines would actually be needed for such a task, and whether
they could pull it off, remains unclear. Sources say Musharraf has
strengthened security at Pakistanís nuclear facilities since September 11.
Last week his foreign minister, Abdul Sattar, insisted the nukes were "under
foolproof custodial controls." Musharraf also has purged Taliban
sympathizers from the top ranks of the military and his intelligence agency.
But recently the military regime had to detain two scientists who played key
roles in the development of Pakistan's nuclear weapons - and turned out to
be Taliban supporters. The two men, Bashir ud Din Mahmoud and Chowdhury
Mohammed Amjad, retired after Pakistan's nuclear test in 1998 and founded an
Afghan relief organization. What they could offer bin Laden, in theory, is
inside knowledge of the Pakistani nuclear program - security procedures, the
number and location of warheads and the names of current staff members who
might be sympathetic to Al Qaeda.
By one estimate, Pakistan has enough nuclear material to make 30 to 50 bombs
or warheads. How many have actually been made isn't known, but even
unassembled parts could be dangerous. A "radiological weapon" - a
conventional explosive device used to scatter radioactive particles - would
be nearly as devastating as an actual nuclear bomb, producing fallout that
could render an American city uninhabitable for years. The material could
come from a weapons program or a civilian facility, such as a nuclear power
plant. Pakistan's nuclear weapons are dispersed across several secret
locations, and some elements of the armed forces surely would resist any
attempt by foreigners to take control of them. But if it comes to that, a
shootout with Pakistan might be preferable to nuclear terrorism in the
United States.
With Tony Clifton, Ron Moreau and Zahid Hussain in Islamabad 
=======================================================
Dear EmailNation Subscriber,
An internationally acclaimed author of eighteen novels, John LeCarre is
also an astute political observer. In an exclusive essay published in the
November 19, 2001 issue of The Nation, LeCarre insists that the US's
current war on terrorism, rather than vanquishing the terrorist threat, is
in fact likely to increase it.
As he writes, "What America is storing up for herself...is yet more
enemies; because after all the bribes, threats and promises that have
patched together the rickety coalition, we cannot prevent another suicide
bomber being born each time a misdirected missile wipes out an innocent
village, and nobody can tell us how to dodge this devil's cycle of
despair, hatred and -- yet again -- revenge."
This essay is available in its entirety for a limited time only at:
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20011119&amp;s=lecarre
SEPTEMBER 11 RESOURCES
We've also created a special page on The Nation website, where we're
collecting all of our September 11 material, including web articles,
links, activist info, a regularly updated section of media resources, a
section on Islam and remarks on what patriotism is and ought to be. All
available at:
http://www.thenation.com/special/wtc/index.mhtml
And please remember that you can email any article on The Nation website
to friends, family and foes using the Email-To-A-Friend feature found by
clicking on the "email" link in the box adjoining each published article.
Best Regards, 
Peter Rothberg, Associate Publisher 
P.S. If you like what you read on The Nation website and you're not
currently a subscriber to the magazine, please consider taking advantage
of our special EmailNation offer -- only $35.97 for 47 weekly issues.
You'll be able to read ALL of what appears in The Nation and you'll help
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================================================
Published on Saturday, November 3, 2001 in the International Herald Tribune 
The War on Terror Turns Into War on Afghanistan 
by William Pfaff
PARIS -- What set out to be an American war on terrorism has become a war against Afghanistan. The substitution of Afghanistan for terrorism, or the identification of the one with the other, is not only unjust but diverts U.S. policy from where it was intended to go, to where it is the most simple to go. Afghanistan has been substituted for terrorism because Afghanistan is accessible to military power, and terrorism is not. The employment of high-tech munitions against irrelevant targets is a distraction from measures that actually deal with the threat. "War" is feasible against Qaida, the clandestine association of like-minded Muslim fundamentalists led by Osama bin Laden, because it is a matter of police and intelligence work. Remarkable progress has been made during the last four weeks, thanks to unprecedented international cooperation. However, Qaida is not identical with terrorism. Nor is bin Laden himself, even though Washington has cast him as the personification of evil. Terrorism is simply a form of violent political action, with political motives and objectives, and it is a recurrent phenomenon in history. Washington's inability to track down and seize or kill bin Laden is why the Taliban government has been substituted as America's enemy. The Kabul government's defiance is in turn responsible for the situation of frustration in which the United States finds itself, and which threatens to prove a damaging setback in more than one respect. Fear of American air attacks have provoked a huge exodus of refugees from Afghanistan. The country is already suffering the consequences of a drought that has crippled its agriculture. The attacks themselves have made it all but impossible for relief agencies to go into the country. Misdirected bombings that have twice hit International Red Cross relief depots add to the misery the United States is inflicting upon these people, and for which international opinion holds it responsible. The utility of the bombings is hard to defend. It was believed able to bring down the Taliban government, but that is not happening. There is no reason whatever to expect more bombs to make the Taliban authorities hand over bin Laden. The administration itself lacks confidence that an eventual ground expedition will seize him; Afghanistan is not Panama. The original plan depended less on bombing than on organization of the existing military and political opposition; cutting off the support Pakistan was giving to the regime; and enlistment of the country's other neighbors, including Iran, all with ethnic or religious clients inside Afghanistan. The authority of the former king and the United Nations was to underwrite a new coalition government. This plan has suffered a series of setbacks, and official Washington is rapidly losing interest in political solutions. There is an increasing disposition toward brute force, and the use of whatever allies are at hand, even if that threatens to leave Afghanistan in chaos, and the war on terrorism stranded. One might think it sensible to change a policy that is failing, but that is not the case in a government whose primordial motivation is to appease Congress and the media. Although bin Laden has not been found, operations against Qaida seem to be going well. An extensive apparatus for tracking terrorist communications, organizations and funding is being put into place. The United States and its allies could take advantage of these successes, and of the arrival of Ramadan and Afghanistan's harsh winter to suspend the bombings. The situation in Afghanistan and among Washington's Muslim allies could be allowed to evolve over the winter months. The result might prove constructive. Washington might take the time to reflect on its responsibility, which is to deal intelligently with the terrorist threat to the United States. Bin Laden and his group are merely instances of that threat. If he is killed, he will be replaced. The causes of terrorism will remain, and they are political. Afghanistan and its people are no threat to the United States, but they are th
e ones taking the full weight of America's indignation. The administration's priorities are upside-down. Los Angeles Times Syndicate. 
Copyright © 2001 the International Herald Tribune 
###

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hi coordination folks.  my apologies for not being able to attend
sunday's meeting, something came up at my house that i had to take
care of.  

i haven't seen any minutes posted on the madpeace site....  what did i
miss?  thanks,

-X

_______________________________________________
coordination@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc

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Folks,
   Initial indications are that the progressive caucus thought the milder
form of our resolution was still too controversial for them to support.
   I'm going to buttonhole some alders before the Common Council meeting
tonight, find out more, and work with X on this.
   We may need to submit the text as-is by this Thursday, and hope for at
least a debate on 11/20, even if we can't get anyone else to support it.

Peace,
X

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_______________________________________________
discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss

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I remember it well.
The time was Thu, Nov 01, 2001 at 03:24:52PM -0600, and Sarah Coyle
whispered:

&gt; I think we need to meet, and really nail down the language on both
versions,
&gt; then organize a coherent strategy, and take it from there.  I'd like to
&gt; suggest we meet on Sunday evening.  We could meet at the Union at 6:30 - I
&gt; suggest that b/c BV and I will be there already after the coordinating
&gt; committee meeting.

That time works for me.


X

_______________________________________________
policy@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

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              <text>Re: [MAPC-policy] resolution update</text>
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Please, if you're going to the Peace Parade up at MATC/Truax tomorrow
and you have room in your vehicle,  take a moment to stop by either the
Memorial Union on Langdon and/or the Willy Co-op to see if there are any
people who need rides.  The coalition has suggested that those needing
rides be at the Co-op or the Union at 11:30 sharp.  There will be "point
people" at those locations to help corrdinate.  It looks like there's
going to be a good turnout and we want to make sure that those withou
vehicles can get a ride.  So please, if you're driving, pick someone up.

Thanks!
-AR
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x,

I think it's a great idea and would support it in both the Coordinating
Committee meeting and the general membership meeting.

Peace,
x

----- Original Message -----
From: "x" &lt;x&gt;
To: &lt;x&gt;; &lt;x&gt;
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 5:28 PM
Subject: [MAPC-coord] Teach-in


&gt; Dear Action and Coordination committees,
&gt;
&gt; The Palestine Right to Return Coalition would like to offer the MAPC
members
&gt; a teach-in on the Palestine/Israel conflict. X, a graduate
&gt; student writing his thesis on the conflict and the founder of Alternative
&gt; Palestinian Agenda, does a 45 minute teach-in that covers the
geographical,
&gt; political, legal, and historical aspect of the conflict.  We believe that
&gt; there will be an interest among MAPC members and that it would benefit
them
&gt; to have a basic understanding of the issue, if they don't already.
&gt;
&gt; Please let me know how this might be set up. I suggest it gets brought up
at
&gt; the next general meeting to see how much interest there is, and then we
can
&gt; set a time somehow.
&gt;
&gt; Peace, X
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We might halt the speeches at a rally for ten
&gt;minutes to let people talk to each other.  Or do away with the
&gt;speeches altogether, and instead ask groups to facilitate
&gt;smaller-group discussions on their issues and tactics, run short
&gt;training sessions, offer games or dances or rituals.  And we could
&gt;develop ways to create instant Public Conversations as actions and
&gt;as education.


_______________________________________________
discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss

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All - Remember things like this the next time someone takes you to task for
not voting Democratic.  Democrats voted en masse for this bill, as they did
for the tax cut.  They failed to stop the Ashcroft and Norton nominations,
and they support SDI, massive corporate giveaways and soon more tax cuts.
Is
it any wonder former Democrats are leaving the party in droves?  X

_______________________________________________
discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss


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              <text>
Folks,
   Initial indications are that the progressive caucus thought the milder 
form of our resolution was still too controversial for them to support.
   I'm going to buttonhole some alders before the Common Council meeting 
tonight, find out more, and work with X on this.
   We may need to submit the text as-is by this Thursday, and hope for at 
least a debate on 11/20, even if we can't get anyone else to support it.

Peace,
X

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_______________________________________________
policy@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

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              <text>Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:48 PM</text>
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              <text>discuss@madpeace.org; policy@madpeace.org</text>
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              <text>NULL</text>
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          <name>September 11 Email: Subject</name>
          <description>A brief summary of the topic of the message.</description>
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              <text>[MAPC-policy] city resolution in jeopardy</text>
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              <text>
BOOKSELLERS THREATENED BY FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE ACT

For Immediate Release: November 15, 2001

Rainbow Bookstore Cooperative recently received a letter from the
American Booksellers Foundation for Free
Expression (ABFFE) concerning the chilling effects on booksellers of the
new antiterrorism bill that President
Bush just signed into law.

If the bookstore were served with a court order under the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to
search our business records, including the titles of books purchased by
our customers, we would have no right
to object in court or the court of public opinion. The new law includes
a gag order that prevents us from
disclosing "to any other person" the fact that we received such an
order. The ABFFE says that depending on
the specifics of the subpoena, the gag order could extend to contact
with an attorney! No right to legal counsel
is outrageous but is suddenly a very real and terrifying possibility.

This terrifying encroachment on the privacy rights of citizens is itself
a form of terrorism. "Terrorism",
according to the New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary, is defined as
"the systematic employment of
violence and intimidation to coerce a government or community,
especially, into acceding to specific political
demands". President Bushs declaration of a war on terrorism and
subsequent military actions, combined with
the presumption that U.S. citizens should willingly surrender our civil
liberties for the good of the country
certainly constitutes such a political demand. The FBI shows up at your
home or workplace, demands
information and refuses to let you contact legal counsel would sound
like coercion and intimidation to most
people. With the passage of the new antiterrorism legislation, if you
dont cooperate, if you resist, your
freedom and livelihood will be in jeopardy. Ironically, the first
definition of the word "terrorist" in my dictionary
refers to the Jacobins, the radicals during the French Revolution who
"advocated and practiced methods of
partisan repression and bloodshed in the propagation of the principles
of democracy and equality". The
prospect of increasing "partisan repression" at home and "bloodshed"
abroad, in the name of democracy, a
founding principle of this country as well as in France, is our new
terrifying reality. We must collectively take a
stand to defend our democratic rights, which includes the right to
protest our government, oppose the war, and
the right to read whatever we want .

The new reactionary political climate, highlighted by the passage of
FISA, dangerously expands the decade
long government assault on our civil liberties and democratic freedoms.
The danger to booksellers is just one
small part of this new landscape. What are the repercussions for
anti-war groups, people of color, immigrants,
WTO/World Bank/IMF protesters, anarchists and radical activists of all
stripes, progressive media outlets-any
person or group who challenges the status quo-under these new laws? Do
we even know? The right to
political dissent is at stake. Generations have struggled to expand our
democratic rights at home and a new
generation hopes to extend them globally. This new global justice
movement is threatened by our
governments "employment of violence and intimidation" at home and
abroad.

We are sending this urgent appeal to our friends and allies in the
media. We urge you to contact X,
President of ABFFE, at X, for more information. Research the
implications of this law. Make public
the threats to our democracy in the name of "Homeland Security". We need
more information, not less, during
these dangerous times.

In Solidarity

X

Rainbow Bookstore Cooperative

426 W. Gilman St.

Madison WI 53703

608/257-6050



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              <text>[MAPC-discuss] [Fwd: foreign intelligence surveillance act]</text>
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              <text>
Hi X,

That's great. I'll cc this email to the Coordinating Committee so that
people know you two will be sharing the CC liaison position for the Arts
committee. Our next CC meeting is Sunday, Nov. 4th, 4:00 PM at the UW
Memorial Union. Just check the "Today in the Union" board for room location.

We have childcare for tomorrow night's General Membership meeting (Tuesday,
10/30), so please come and bring your children if you like. We are meeting
at 6:30 PM at the WilMar Neighborhood Center, 953 Jenifer street, on bus
line #3.

Peace,
X

----- Original Message -----
From: "X" &lt;X&gt;
To: &lt;X&gt;
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 8:24 AM
Subject: Hello X. This is X. Hope this finds youwell.
X has begun a new sche


&gt; Hello, X.  This is X.  Hope this finds you well. X has begun a new schedule at work that she feels interferes with her
keeping her position as arts and culture liason to the coordinating
committee.  X and I have agreed to "job-share" this post.  X
suggested I let one of the at large members know.  Please let me know if you
have any questions, suggestions, information, objections.
&gt; Sincerely,
&gt; X
&gt;
&gt;
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              <text>Monday, October 29, 2001 6:51 PM</text>
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              <text>[MAPC-coord] Re: Hello, X. This is X. Hope</text>
            </elementText>
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            <elementText elementTextId="12118">
              <text>
hello all,
I agree we need to meet soon to discuss these issues in real time.  Does
meeting this Sun at 6:30 pm at the Union leave us at least an hour before
the coordinating cmte meeting?  I can make that time, tho I'd prefer
something a little earlier.  Paul Bunyan room or TITU?
thanks,
Diane
X
&gt; Sunday night meeting sounds fine, assuming I get feedback from alders
after
&gt; their Friday night caucus.  I think I will.
&gt;
&gt; The title wasn't filed yet, but I think that's OK.  We can do that sort of
&gt; announcement/introduction on 11/6 from the Common Council floor.  In any
&gt; case, debate won't be until 11/20 at the earliest.
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; _________________________________________________________________
&gt; Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
&gt;
&gt;
&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt; policy@madpeace.org
&gt; http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

____________________________________________
X
East Timor Action Network field organizer   ETAN field office
X 					Social Justice Center
office XXX-XXX-XXXX		 1202 Williamson St
cell XXX-XXX-XXXX                           Madison, WI 53703
home XXX-XXX-XXXX                           fax XXX-XXX-XXXX

Check out these internet sites!
the East Timor Action Network/US      http://www.etan.org
Madison, WI - East Timor projects     http://www.aideasttimor.org
Madison's Social Justice Center       http://www.socialjusticecenter.org

"We struggled for more than 24 years for independence. We've learned the
lesson that even small people have a voice."
    -East Timorese leader Mari Alkatiri, during the August 30, 2001
Constituent Assembly vote


_______________________________________________
policy@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

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I have put the minutes from Sunday on the cc wiki page.  It would facilitate
approval next Sunday if everyone could read them and bring
corrections/changes with them.

exhausted but energized (if that makes sense),
X


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_______________________________________________
coordination@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc


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X,

Good ideas, but I think too difficult to organize for this meeting, given
the packed agenda and potential discussion of CD on Nov 17th. See X's email. I think we need to go with what we decided this time around.

Peace,
X

-----Original Message-----
From: X
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 3:56 AM
To: coordination@madpeace.org
Subject: Re: [MAPC-coord] cc mission for approval, gm agenda

On Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:37:50 -0600  "X" wrote:

&gt; Here is the CC mission, combining X original plus what we
added/changed:

looks great to me.

&gt; Here is the agenda:
...
&gt; 4) Announcements
&gt; 5) Optional - Video

i thought more about the idea of having people who want to work on the
brochure get together for a little bit after the gm.  i started
thinking about all the other tasks we try to coordinate, particularly
things that have a lot of overlap between the different committees.  i
was also thinking about the need to make the general meetings more
productive and worth while for people to come to, since some people
have stopped coming because of their experience with long meetings
that didn't accomplish a whole lot.  i think that's gotten much
better, but our gms still have a reputation which we need to take big,
tangible steps towards overcoming.

i propose that at the end of the gm we have people split up into
working groups to accomplish specific things that need to be
organized.  we could have our own proposals as the cc and/or during
the meeting, anyone could suggest other topics.  my proposals for this
week:

1) working on the brochure
  - already discussed as a good idea

2) coordinating putting up posters
  - has lots of overlap between o/e, communications, volunteers, etc;
    it really needs to happen, particularly this week with so many
    events coming up soon...

3) coordinating the production of posters
  - has lots of overlap between o/e, arts, communications, action,
    media, etc; there are people not in any committee who are good at
    this who want to help us; it'd be good if there was some more
    consistancy to our publicity (all posters include the mapc logo
    and www.madpeace.org, a .pdf version of all of our posters should
    be posted on the web so anyone can download, print, copy, and hang
    them, etc); it's a lot of work, and it'd be good if there was a
    pool of people who could do it and each committee didn't have to
    find volunteers themselves; etc...

4) inital steps towards forming a labor caucus
  - see how many union folks are in the room and if they're interested
    in starting to work towards forming a caucus

in addition, we could use one of these working groups to coordinate
details of a specific event.  since we have less and less time in the
cc meetings to hash out lots of details, it might be good to have
people from different committees meet to coordinate some of the
details themselves, and get people right there who agree to take care
of certain tasks.  the people from these groups who could then be the
liasons between committees for the planning of the given event.  this
way, things like "who's going to pick up the art props for our demo on
the 17th planned by action?" can be taken care of without using up
time in a cc meeting.

this is a direct way to involve volunteers from the meeting in the
work of the coalition without them having to join a committee or
caucus.  it drastically cuts down on the time between when a new
person comes to a mapc meeting and when they can start to be involved
in the coalition's work.  it would help the committees get their work
accomplished.  i hope it would also start to break down the mentality
of "committee turf" which i see as developing into a minor problem
(all the concern over "who's responsibility is this task, committee X
or committee Y?").

for this week, if there's still work that needs to be done that we
don't have (enough) people working on, we could have groups to
coordinate that work for:

- the fast
- the teach-in on thursday
- the peace parade on the 17th
- the dance party at the cardinal
- the school supply event on the 30th
- the art auction
...

for each of our propoals, it would be best to find a coordinator or
facilitator ahead of time so at the end of the meeting, we could have
them stand up, announce their location, and have folks who are
interested in working on that go to their part of the room.  if folks
proposed something during the meeting, they could be the default
facilitator, or the chairs could make sure someone volunteers to do it
when the group is splitting up.

my apologies for not thinking of all of this before/during our meeting
since it would have been easier to discuss in person than over email.

do y'all think this is worth trying?  if so, let's put it on the
agenda as item #6 (or 5, if the video isn't happening):

6) Break up into working groups
 - working on mapc brochure (X/X)
 - forming labor caucus (X)
 - poster distribution (X/X)
 - poster production (?)
 ...

these are just ideas for facilitators (X + X were talking
about the brochure at the cc meeting, X and X are mentioned in
the e/o report...)  any volunteers for the others?  do folks think we
need one for any of the events i listed above?

what'd y'all think?


 In solidarity,

X
International Socialist Organization    (www.socialistworker.org)
United Faculty and Academic Staff, AFT Local 223   (www.ufas.org)


_______________________________________________
coordination@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc


_______________________________________________
coordination@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc

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   People are saying this is not Vietnam, and they're getting away with it.

   Last night I was leafletting at the Dylan concert.  A wall of
indifference.  I'm sure my leafletting technique could use some improvement.
  But still, fans don't connect this anti-war singer to peace.

   And Feingold Sunday at the Pyle Center.  He defended our bombing in
Afghanistan as justified self-defense, just after he mentioned (bragged?)
that he had protested against the Vietnam War right outside that building.
It's maddening that he's trying to get credit for a past anti-war stance,
while firmly siding with the status quo now.

   The Nation's Katha Pollitt recently stated that this war is not like
Vietnam.  She took potshots at the peace movement, and repeated the mantra:
this war is justified self defense.  Then in the end she agreed it's a
stupid and wrong-headed approach, exactly as she initially characterized
Vietnam.

   Castro's speech handed out at the last Socialist Potluck showed some
valid parallels between this war and Vietnam.  The vague goal, the
unidentifiable enemy, and now the advisors going in.

   September 11th is functioning as a pretext, and people won't acknowledge
it.  Several thousand Americans are killed, so that gives us the right to
starve several MILLION Afghanis?  That gives us the right to wage war
against any number of countries, and use WHATEVER methods and weapons we
want?

   How can we tap into Americans' belief that Vietnam was wrong, so that
they will see this war is wrong in the same way?


_________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss

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              <text>

This is one I thought folks should see. Sorry to bother you all.

----------
From: x
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:59:38 EDT
To: x
Subject: Fwd: FW: Fw: Hit 'em

In a message dated 10/15/2001 6:37:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, x writes: 

What to  do if you fall into a conversation with someone about the 
terrorist attacks who doesn't believe in retaliation: 

  1. Engage in conversation, and ask if military force is appropriate. 
  2. When he says "No," ask, "Why not?" 
  3. Wait until he says something to the effect of -  "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence." 
  4. When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can. 
  5. When he gets back up to punch you, point out that it would be a 
mistake and contrary to his values to strike you,  because that would be 
awful and he should not cause more violence. 
  6. Wait until he agrees, and has pledged not to commit additional violence. 
  7. Punch him in the face again, harder this time. Repeat steps 5 through 7 until he understands that sometimes it is necessary to punch back. 


From: x
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:32:12 -0700
To: x
Cc: x
Subject: FW: Fw: Hit 'em

I love this. It gives new meaning to America Strikes Back, but important safety tip: Don't try this with anyone with a neck size larger than your waist.....


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hi all, the meeting minutes are posted.  X &amp; X, please check your
reports for accuracy on the names I listed and change them if wrong, spelled
wrong, etc.

I have some updating to do on madpeace for the listings of cc members, I'll
get to it as soon as I can.  Heading out to teachin.

peace,
X


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


_______________________________________________
coordination@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc

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