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                  <text>The Madison Area Peace Coalition (MAPC) formed fourteen days after the September 11 attacks to oppose (among other goals) the use of U.S. military, economic, or political force – whether direct or proxy, overt or covert -- "that violates the sovereignty or human rights of any nation or people." The Archive has assembled here e-mails exchanges from MAPC dating from the group's founding until late November 2001.</text>
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              <text>I think a discussion of MAPC's outreach/inclusivity is overdue, but I would like to suggest that we leave the logo out of it for right now, to vastly reduce potential divisiveness of the issue. Table the logo for a week, talk about these important issues of inclusiveness, and then revive the logo discussion without it being a litmus test of any kind.

I'm sure we've all seen it happen before. People who fundamentally mean well and generally agree with each other can get sidetracked into bitter wars over what meanings should be attributed to a symbol or symbolic action. Arguments over differing interpretations degenerate into labeling each others' interpretations in very negative ways.
Right now, rather than fighting over the history vs. the perception of the peace sign, we should be focused on taking concrete steps to ensure (1) that everyone who opposes the war feels comfortable working with MAPC and (2) that MAPC's efforts to educate and inform are both respectful and audible to every community in Madison.
If the use or non-use of the peace sign has a part to play, it should emerge out of this larger discussion, not be the instrument to open a can of worms.
What we really need to examine is: what efforts have been made to build coalitions with various communities in Madison? I know efforts have just started to outreach to labor--excellent &amp; long overdue as well. Have we tried to invite other communities to get involved, or explored ways of networking? When I emailed my contacts in the Muslim Students' Assoc &amp; the Islamic Ctr about the rally this Saturday, they were unaware of any other MAPC effort to involve or even connect with their organizations. So--what has been done so far? What can be done?

Secondly but no less importantly, we need to collect feedback from non-dominant-culture perspectives, whether coalition members or our contacts in various communities, regarding:
1) perception of MAPC / anti-war movement in general--relevant? Inclusive?
2) things MAPC can do to be *perceived* as more welcoming to anti-war people in various communities
3) things MAPC can do to actually *be* more representative of a variety of views and voices
4) particular ways MAPC can network with community leaders
5) best strategies for each community for outreach on anti-war issues.
It seems especially important that MAPC be a haven and firm support for anyone who feels isolated and vulnerable at the moment--whether it be the direct targets of racist scapegoating, or international students from any part of the globe who feel isolated by their anti-imperialist perspectives and/or afraid of the new anti-immigrant laws.

So my final recommendation is that our next action should really target issues of racial profiling, Ashcroft's stripping away of immigrants' rights, and the hundreds of people currently in custody over a month without due process. (I was planning to suggest this anyway--it didn't just come up because of tonight's meeting).

Guess that's more than two cents!
In solidarity,
X

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              <text>discuss@madpeace.org</text>
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              <text>[MAPC-discuss] higher priorities than logo</text>
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FYI:
As follow up to a call I made to Greenpeace to encourage turnout at
11/17 Rally, Jim Young called (running for governor) to ask if he could
speak for 5 mins. at the Rally.  Would focus on military-industrial
complex.  Told him I would bring up at coordinating meeting &amp; get back
to him Mon.
X (I'm the new "outie" from Outreach &amp; Education)
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              <text>madpeace-cc-admin@lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com</text>
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              <text>

I will add it to the agenda.
&gt;--- Original Message ---
&gt;From: "X" &lt;X&gt;
&gt;To: &lt;X&gt;, &lt;X&gt;
&gt;Date: 10/29/01 10:04:47 AM
&gt;
Hi,
&gt;
&gt;I totally forgot that the policy committee wants something on
the
&gt;"proposals" agenda:  we have a proposal that the city alders
vote for a
&gt;resolution that condems bombing (in different language than
that) in
&gt;Afganistan.  The resolution will be posted on "discuss" for
all to read &amp;
&gt;give feedback, to make changes before Tuesday.  X
has been
&gt;heading it up.  Could we put it on the agenda for Tuesday? 
Thanks.
&gt;
&gt;X
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              <text>FW: [LIFILM] Pete Hamill on Afghanistan</text>
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&gt;The news this morning said that the us is sending ground troups into
Afghanistan. Bush has since denied that claim and did &gt;not support it or
deny it, but called it a 'rumor'. Does this constitute an emergency action?
alice

Again, this is not news - it has been going on for a week or so - it is
just that the US has officially recognized it. The troops deployed are on
an intelligence gathering mission. (I mentioned this at the general body
meeting) They are not involved in the military conflict as of yet. And they
are very few in number. Here is a piece from CNN. Also check other websites
for more information.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/19/ret.retaliation.facts/index.html

thanks,
x
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              <text>[MAPC-coord] Re: [MAPC-action] (no subject)</text>
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AP and CNN have reported that
the Taliban abandoned Kabul
at dawn Tuesday.  But seizing
the capital city is hardly the
same as taking over Afghanistan.
The Taliban's capital is Kandahar
and their other southern mountain
strongholds.


_______________________________________________
discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss

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I remember it well.  The time was Wed, Nov 07, 2001 at 10:32:15AM -0600, and
X muttered:

&gt; Ideally, I guess I'd like to see the "stronger" resolution introduced as a
&gt; communication and have the "weaker" one be introduced by one or
(hopefully)
&gt; more progressive alders.  If that's not going to happen - and it sounds
&gt; unlikely from what you've sent - I think we need to pressure the alders
&gt; we've been talking to to introduce the "weaker" one before T'ksgiving.  I
&gt; have to say I'm really disappointed that they're hesitant to do anything
&gt; before T'ksgiving.  After all, the reality we're addressing is an
impending
&gt; massive humanitarian crisis.  Jeeeeeeezus.  THEY need a breather????

What about a face-to-face meeting with some alders?  I really think we could
sway some people by assuaging their fears about our motives and tactics.  I
for one am empathetic with their trepidation, but X is right that there
are other, more pressing considerations.

Barbara, you've been amazingly helpful as a liason--what do you think about
setting up an informal chat with them?  I'll spring for coffee for all at
the
bistro of their choice...

&gt; I don't know anything about resolutions introduced as a communication
w/out
&gt; any alder sponsors, but it seems to me that doing that with our "weaker",
&gt; more likely to pass resolution will flag it as unacceptable to the
council.
&gt; If I were a middle of the road alder and saw that none of the PD alders
had
&gt; signed on, I sure as heck wouldn't vote for it.  (But I think it'd be fine
&gt; to introduce the "stronger" one like that, if we do still decide to
&gt; introduce it.)
&gt;
&gt; So, I guess - with the current info we have - I feel ambivalent about the
&gt; "stronger" resolution.  If it will help the "weaker" one pass to introduce
&gt; it - by communication or by an alder - then I say we go for it.  But the
&gt; people we need to talk to for this analysis are the PD alders who are
&gt; balking at the "weaker" one.

The danger we face with this particular approach (strong first) is that we
seem to be scaring people away right off.  It's almost the right tactic, but
perhaps we're just misplacing our emphasis.

Perhaps we should really be leading with the weaker version, then in debate
pushing for more.  I think we agree on the need to concentrate on getting
the alders to understand the basic urgency of the humanitarian situation.
Once there, we may be able to convince more people that prioritization of
the
humanitarian situation leads one logically to the condemnation of the
current
war.

X

_______________________________________________
policy@madpeace.org
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-policy

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              <text>
CNN is reporting a small deployment of Special Forces ground troops,
probably intended to locate targets for air strikes rather than to engage in
combat.  Fox News is reporting three teams of a dozen troops each.  One of
them reported that there had been numerous prior sightings of U.S. troops,
but that this was the first official confirmation.  It's not the top story
either place.

My recollection from the CC discussions was that an emergency response would
be automatic in the event of a non-Special Forces ground invasion or a
*major* deployment of Special Forces, but that a small Special Forces
deployment would not necessarily trigger an emergency action.

I would also note that, in the two hours since x posted this, there has
been no other discussion of an action on any of the MAPC lists.  So I don't
get the impression that other folks in MAPC have interpreted this as
requiring immediate action.

My own feeling -- perhaps influenced by the fact that I'm sick and can't
help out regardless -- is that this is not a significant military escalation
and is probably just a public acknowledgment of what has been happening on
the ground all along.

x


----- Original Message -----
From: "x" &lt;x&gt;
To: &lt;x&gt;; &lt;x&gt;
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 7:53 AM
Subject: [MAPC-action] 5pm Action Protesting Ground Troops


&gt; The media is saying that the US has sent ground troops into Afghanistan.
We
&gt; had planned on a 5pm action on the capitol in response to this. I think we
&gt; should go ahead, but given all the other things we are doing, we should
keep
&gt; it simple.
&gt;
&gt; I propose we just have a picket line. The following things need to be
done:
&gt;
&gt; Get an announcement out to WORT to build the action.
&gt; Get a bullhorn.
&gt; Put together a sheet of chants.
&gt;
&gt; What do you think?
&gt;
&gt; Unfortunately, I am walking out the door to go to work, so I can't help on
&gt; this. Given the fact its a work day, I suspect alot of other people are in
&gt; the same boat. Can someone step up and run with this?
&gt;
&gt; Thanks.
&gt; x
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              <text> x, please forward this to xif he is not on this list.

x,

 I agree with most of what you are saying.  I do want to add that this event
 and the course of events to come brings us into a larger field of light from
 where we can move forward as individuals together.  When an event of such
 magnitude can bring a people together, a world together for a common cause
 of life preservation (somewhat under the guise of retaliation) it is for the
 better and we do change, we are different.  I agree that we tend to drift
 off into a numbness, but when we are awoken, we are changed.  Changing for
 the better.

 In the lack of a Piazza or town square, a local place were we come together
 as a large group, Television, as unfortunate as it may seem has a way of
 substituting for those places.

 In New York City, you have town squares even though not all of you may use
 them.  In L.A. sadly we lack a place where people can come together for the
 most part.  The opportunity that New York has especially and the world has
 to move forward through this time to a place of extremely higher
 consciousness is palpable.  You can reach out and grab the feeling, it is in
 the air, it is tangible, and it is even more evident when you see a person
 not understand how palpable it is. When that happens it is the place for
 those who do see to help bring people to this greater understanding.

 It is most important for all of us to remember to breathe.  For breath is
 the intake and the out take for which we as a race communicate. It shares
 our feelings with one another and lets us release what is inside of us, be
 it anger, love, compassion, fear or numbness.  I urge you all to breathe and
 look each other in the eyes in this time of change for only then will we
 truly move on to the place that we need to.

 When you next look at your best friend, your lover, your partner, breathe in
 and out and let go.  Then try and do it with each one of your friends, then
 with strangers and soon we will see the difference as we truly speak to one
 another.

 Love,

x

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Here is the CC mission, combining X's original plus what we added/changed:

- The main decision-making body of MAPC is the General Meeting.  The General
Meeting sets the politics and the general direction of MAPC.  The
Coordinating Committee takes its direction from the General Meeting, and is
accountable to the general membership.  All decisions made by the
Coordinating Committee are subject to discussion and review by the General
Meeting.  The Coordinating Commitee ensures that the decisions of the
General Meetings are implemented.

- The Coordinating Committee is the central orgainizing body of MAPC.  It
ensures that the work of the committees is coordinated.  It evaluates
ongoing work to make sure that MAPC is not missing opportunities for
outreach, growth, and political impact.

- The Coordinating Committee is responsible for facilitating development of
overall strategy for the coalition, subject to General Meeting approval, and
for providing recommendations to ensure that the work of the committees is
coordinated in a matter consistent with that strategy.

- The Coordinating Committee is empowered to make emergency decisions for
MAPC.  An emergency decision consists of responding appropriately to rapidly
changing current events, or of initiating the coordination of plans that are
under time constraint. The Coordinating Committee has the right to make
emergency decisions when necessary.  Emergency decisions will be reported
back to the General Meeting.

- The Coordinating Committee is responsible for establishing policy on and
making decisions regarding disbursement of funds by the coaltion.

- The Coordinating Committee is responsible for orgainizing the General
Meetings.  It will develop agendas for General Meetings.  It assures that
General Meetings are organized so that critical discussions are held and
important decisions are made in a timely fashion.
=========================================

THis was a little more difficult than it seemed, since not all sentences
flowed well with what was sandwiched in.  The first paragraph is funky with
using "general meeting" and "general membership" but I think it's probably
ok. I did some minor editing to make everything fit together. We agreed to
give 24 hours for corrections and feedback. X and X will present.
X, will you be printing for distribution at the meeting?

Here is the agenda:

GM meeting agenda

1) Welcome
2) committee reports
- action
- outreach
- Student Youth
- Arts
- media
- policy
- fundraising
- labor movement report
3) Proposals (new business)
- CC mission proposal
- Action committee vigil proposal
- SYC logo proposal
4) Announcements
5) Optional - Video

I'll get the meeting notes out as soon as I can clean them up, probably
tomorrow evening.

X


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_______________________________________________
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http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-cc


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Policy Folks -
    The media committee needs to send the following out in the next few
days.  Please forward comments to X.

====================================================================

Dear Editor:
      This year Madisonians are invited to join in a Peace Parade in
solidarity with the eleventh annual School of the Americas protest.  The
parade is being held at MATC Truax at noon on Saturday, November 17th.  For
more information call 835-7501 or go to www.madpeace.org.
      Alexander Cockburn (11/02/01 'U.S. eyes sheer torture') notes that the
United States government has sheltered torturers around the world.  One way
the government has done this is through the Army School of the Americas
(SOA) in Fort Benning, Georgia, long a U.S. military training school for
torture techniques.  The School's graduates have gone on to mastermind
torture and death squads in their home countries in Latin America.  In fact,
SOA alumni form a who's who of notorious human rights abusers in the region.
  For ten years, American citizens have protested the School of the Americas
outside  Fort Benning on a Saturday in November.
      Recently the Army has tried to change the image of the SOA.  They
changed the name to The Western Hemisphere Institute for Security
Cooperation (WHINSEC). WHINSEC continues to train military personnel of
Latin American nations.  But now WHINSEC's stated mission includes training
students to provide humanitarian aid, to direct peacekeeping efforts, and to
protect individual human rights. To the extent that these are sincere
efforts we applaud them.
      However, by training Latin American soldiers in tactics of war,
WHINSEC promotes and exports violence.  Besides seeking acknowledgement and
redress for the terrible deeds of past SOA graduates, we also seek to change
the involvement of the US Government in exporting violence, along with
promotion of acts reinforcing poverty and increasing economic disparity.  In
this regard, we support House Resolution 1810 of the 107th US Congress,
which repeals authority for WHINSEC and calls for congressional oversight of
future training of Latin American military personnel.

Sincerely,
Madison Area Peace Coalition



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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 07:29:21 -0600

US to resume defence supplies to India

                  TIMES NEWS NETWORK

                       NEW DELHI: The US has agreed to resume defence
                       supplies to India and asked New Delhi to send its
                       requirements to work out the details.

                  The assurance about defence supplies was given by US
                  defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld during his two-hour
talks
                  with defence minister George Fernandes here Monday.

                  Defence ministry officials said the specifics and details
of
the
                  supplies would be decided later. Defence supplies have
been
                  frozen since the Pokhran-II tests.

                  Rumsfeld, here on a brief working visit after a trip to
Islamabad,
                  said Indo-US military-to-military ties were poised to take
a
big
                  leap forward. The Indo-US defence ties would be sharply
                  boosted in the coming days, with US under-secretary of
                  defence for policy Douglas Feith and Pacific Command chief
                  Admiral Dennis Blair scheduled to visit New Delhi soon.

                  During a joint news conference after the talks, Fernandes,
                  whom Rumsfeld invited to visit the US, said the two
countries
                  looked forward to establishing a long-lasting strategic
                  relationship. "We discussed some specifics about our
defence
                  partnership, including certain items we need to acquire
and
                  collaborations we can have," he said. He did not
elaborate.

                  During the talks, the issue of US sanctions also came up.
                  Rumsfeld said the US state department and the Indian
                  government would soon discuss "the status" of the few
                  remaining sanctions still in place against New Delhi,
imposed
                  after the 1998 nuclear tests, which deal with prohibitions
                  against technology transfer in the nuclear and missile
                  programmes.

                  The US also reassured India that its war against terrorism
was
                  indeed going to be a global one, with the Taliban, bin
Laden
                  and his Al-Qaida network being the clear and present
targets
                  at the moment.

                  Though Rumsfeld deftly side-stepped specific questions on
                  Pakistan's role in abetting cross-border terrorism in
India,
he
                  emphasised the US efforts would target terrorist networks
                  wherever they exist once the Afghanistan campaign came to
a
                  logical end.

                  "President Bush has been very clear that the effort
against
                  terrorism is a global one," he said.






_______________________________________________
discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss

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Hi folks -

Policy had a lovely and productive meeting last night.  In attendance were
X, X, x, X, and X.  Here is our plan for the
next few weeks.

A.  CITY RESOLUTION.

	1.  X will draft this, based on Sen. Wellstone's, the City of
Berkeley, and other sources.  It should have a positive tone, and use
"famous quotes" for credibility.  We'll all work on the final draft.
	2.  After we have the resolution, MAPC members will target various city
alders to have it brought up.  We'll figure out more about this procedure.

B.  LETTER WRITING/PHONE CAMPAIGN.

	1. X will prepare a contact sheet and sample letter(s) for easy
distribution at the Nov. 17 action and other meetings and events.  We will
have a table on 11/17 for anti-war letter writing to federal legislators.
	2.  Some concern was raised because right now, no mail is being opened in
DC due to the anthrax scare.  Call-in campaigns are imperative, such as the
one X circulated.

C.  BALDWIN MEETING.

	1.  X will set this up for next week.  Format will be along the lines
of the first two meetings we've had.  8-9 am is the best time for everyone.
A variety of people want to attend.

This should keep us busy for the next few weeks!

I believe our next policy meeting will be half an hour before the GM on
Tuesday, Oct. 30, place TBA.  See you there!

Peace, X
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X,
    You've probably already done this, but if you could put the resolution
on the agenda for the big meeting Tuesday, that would be helpful.
    Thanks.  I'll see you there at 6pm.

X


&gt;From: "X" &lt;X&gt;
&gt;Reply-To: X
&gt;To: &lt;X&gt;
&gt;Subject: [MAPC-policy] (no subject)
&gt;Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:29:07 -0600
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;Hi all, just a reminder to meet at 6 pm at Wilmar before the meeting Tues.
&gt;X, thanks for your message - bringing hard copies for the resolution
&gt;is a great idea.  X said she will post it on "discuss" for review,
&gt;which people can subscribe to through the madpeace website.
&gt;
&gt;If anyone can come before 6 pm, I will be there and will be setting up
&gt;chairs for the general meeting.  It would be great to have some helpers for
&gt;that!
&gt;
&gt;X
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Send me a copy and I'll get some copies printed.
&gt;--- Original Message ---
&gt;From: "X" &lt;X&gt;
&gt;To: &lt;X&gt;
&gt;Date: 10/30/01 1:52:07 PM
&gt;

&gt;
&gt;X/cc,
&gt;
&gt;On Sunday I said I'd get a copy of the USAA/Patriot Act.  Al-awda
just
&gt;emailed around a good summary, the bill itself being 273 pages
long.
&gt;Unfortunately, I am not able to print emails from my computer.
(GRRRR!).
&gt;Could anyone else on their list print this out for our use?
 Sorry I am not
&gt;able to do this.
&gt;
&gt;X
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I'd be very interested in seeing what the Student/Youth Caucus comes up with
as
a design and see if it works better or worse than what we have now.

However, I disagree that the peace symbol is simply a symbol of the Vietnam
era
- e.g. I see youth today hold up the peace sign all the time.

I personally very much like the logo we now use and think it would be good
to
work the bugs out of the problem of the grey-scale so there won't be
reproduction problems.  I certtainly don't think we should go without a
graphic
and only use our name.  Art communicates so much and so simply, plus we
won't
look bland if we only used words.

X

X wrote:

&gt; Hi all!
&gt;
&gt; Just a heads up that the MAPC logo will be on the agenda for Tuesday
night's
&gt; general membership meeting, and a few comments (okay, I lied - lots of
&gt; comments) since I may not be able to attend the whole meeting.
&gt;
&gt; While (AFAIK) we've never voted on this, the peace sign wrapped around the
&gt; globe has become the de facto MAPC logo.  (IIRC the general membership
&gt; referred the logo question back to the Arts &amp; Culture WG, and they
couldn't
&gt; come up with anything better.)
&gt;
&gt; The Student/Youth Caucus has objected to this logo, and designed a new
one,
&gt; which will be presented on Tuesday.  (As I understand it, the problem is
&gt; that the peace sign is tied to a particular historic era, and carries
&gt; baggage which is too hippie-ish -- as opposed to activist.  There is also
&gt; concern that the grey-scale of the logo does not reduce or reproduce
well.)
&gt; Their proposed logo has a half-globe, without peace sign, with paler
images
&gt; of the globe radiating out from it.  (Lousy description, I know.)
&gt;
&gt; I sympathize with the S/YC's objections, but I like their proposed graphic
&gt; even less than the one we've been using.  To me, it's not particularly
&gt; distinctive, and a globe alone just doesn't say "peace" to me.  It could
&gt; just as easily be the logo graphic for a global telecommunications
&gt; corporation.
&gt;
&gt; Then again, I'm not sure that any graphic we pick to represent
&gt; "peace/anti-war" will be acceptable to and truly representative of the
whole
&gt; Coalition.  The Vietnam-era peace sign is, well, Vietnam era, and doesn't
&gt; represent the new generation of activists.  The dove has a longer history,
&gt; but strikes me as a bit too "Pacifist" in image, as does the rifle with a
&gt; flower in its barrel, broken rifle, broken bomb, and a few others.  The
&gt; other predominant image from the Vietnam era, the clenched fist, of
course,
&gt; has the opposite connotation.  We've already been through the discussion
of
&gt; incorporating the symbolism of the American flag; some of us think "peace
is
&gt; patriotic" and others of us think U.S. nationalism is part of the problem.
&gt; And while the globe could well be something that none of us object to, it
&gt; really doesn't symbolize anything that distinguishes us from the other
side.
&gt;
&gt; "Madison area" is tough to symbolize graphically.  The most identifiable
&gt; symbols are architectural (the State Capitol), and we have nothing to do
&gt; with state government.  Doing something with the outline of the state and
&gt; highlighting the Madison area really doesn't work graphically.  And I
doubt
&gt; that anyone would recognize that a satellite view of the Four Lakes was
&gt; anything other than a Rorschach inkblot test.
&gt;
&gt; We could try to have a symbol for everyone, incorporating lots of
different
&gt; images in the logo, but the result would likely be an unwieldy mess.
&gt;
&gt; My personal opinion at this point is that we should either (1)come up with
a
&gt; graphic that is brand new -- no baggage from past movements or
ideologies --
&gt; (and I have no earthly idea what this would be); or (2) just go with a
&gt; "words-only" logo, using a very distinctive typestyle and arrangement of
the
&gt; words in our organization name.  If the typestyle and arrangement are
&gt; distinctive enough, IMO the logo will be recognizeable and identifiable,
and
&gt; would avoid the symbolism &amp; baggage problems inherent in selecting any
&gt; graphic image for a diverse coalition.
&gt;
&gt; X
&gt;
&gt; _______________________________________________
&gt; discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
&gt; http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss


_______________________________________________
discuss@madpeace.org mailing list
http://lists.OpenSoftwareServices.com/mailman/listinfo/madpeace-discuss


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Hi folks - Here's the update on the GM 10/30.  All places have a separate
room for childcare.  All are accessible by bus, as far as I can tell.

Wilmar 257-4576:  $30 per hour for two rooms.  Available all evening.
Holds plenty of people. $25 key deposit.

Atwood neighborhood ctr, 241-1574: $1 per person suggested.  Holds 99
people.  Avail. Tues after 7:30, Mondays after 7, Weds after 8:30. $25 key
deposit.

Neighborhood House, Mills/Park, 255-5337:  Upstairs room only holds 70 - 80
people.  Gym is taken til 2002.  Said we should come see it.  Free.

Friends Mtg House, off Monroe St, 256-2249:  Left message.  Said "downstairs
might work".  Need more info.

Luke House, 310 S. Ingersoll, 256-6325:  Dinner in space til 7:30.  Holds 72
people at tables.  Parking limited (no lot).  They want a pamphlet to find
out more about us.  Told us to visit.  Ask for X.  Free.

It appears Wilmar is the only place available before 7:30, and one of the
few with enough space for the 100 - 140 people I've counted at the last
meetings.  While it will probably cost $90 or so, I would suggest this space
for Oct. 30 and we can find a different, free space in the future if people
agree to meet later in the evening AND less people start showing up.

Shall I book Wilmar, or do people have other ideas?

Peace, X
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 __________________________________________________
 Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?
 Donate cash, emergency relief information
 http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/
 From: x
 Date: Sunday, September 16, 2001 5:07 PM
 To: undisclosed-recipients:;
 Subject: Fwd: FW: Fwd: thoughts on afghanistan



 From: x
 Date: Sunday, September 16, 2001 9:31 AM
 To: undisclosed-recipients:;
 Subject: FW: Fwd: thoughts on afghanistan

Subject: Fwd: thoughts on afghanistan


 I was sent this by a friend and thought it was worth forwarding. If you agree,
 pass it on.
x

 -----Original Message-----
 From:   x
 Sent:   Friday, September 14, 2001 5:45 PM
 To: All UTA
 Subject:    FW: Please read and EDUCATE

 Dear Friends and Family,

 As an American, a New Yorker and an Afghan, I have struggled with many
 feelings.  I have wondered what I can do to educate people about the
 state of affairs in Afghanistan now and over the past 20 years.  The
 Soviets invaded Afghanistan in December of 1979, it is September 2001
 and my father's country has been destroyed day by day for over two
 decades.  I am disgusted by the Taliban and Osama bin Laden.  For my
 family, these have been household names for years prior to the tragedies
 we witnessed on Tuesday.

 My father has spent years trying to get people in the US government to
 listen. And he has sat around our dinner table talking to his children
 for hours on end about what was happening to his homeland.  Many of our
 family's friends have listened as my Dad spoke passionately about the
 hateful crimes the Taliban was committing against innocent Afghans all
 in the name of Islam, an Islam that my family does not know, an Islam
 that cannot be found in the pages of the Koran.

 I beg you, as friends, to take the anger we all feel and try to learn
 and spread knowledge.  We all want retaliation.  We want someone to pay
 for the innocent people whose lives were taken away.  But, please,
 please, please understand that Afghans like me and my family have never
 supported the Taliban.  In fact, we have watched helplessly as these
 cowards took the little bit of dignity the Afghans had left after the
 Soviet war.

 I went to work the other night and watched groups of friends, bright and
 educated people, stop their conversations as I approached.  I have never
 experienced anything like this.  My Dad recently grew a beard, but after
 seeing images of bearded fundamentalists on TV, we have asked him to
 shave it off to quell any possibility of attacks out of ignorance.  For
 the first time in my life, I am afraid to tell people my ethnic
 background.  My name is a liability.  My coloring makes me feel scared
 when people look at me on the subway.  I find myself thankful that my
 sisters and Mom have lighter coloring.

 Please read the following letter.  We all feel helpless right now.  If
 nothing else, please try to educate your friends.  Please do not
 perpetuate hate.  Hatred brought down the World Trade Center.  Hate is
 hate-there is no gray area.  Please forward the following letter to
 everyone you know.  Take a moment to paste the letter into a new email,
 add your own thought.

 It is very possible that we will bomb Afghanistan in the coming days.
 Maybe emails like this will not stop that from happening, but let's not
 pretend that we do not know that those actions will kill innocent and
 helpless people who have lived under the terror of the Taliban for
 years.  We turned our backs for so long.  We have not written about
 them, or if we have, we have not read those articles, we skipped past
 them.  People did not know where Afghanistan was until three days ago.
 How is that possible?  Bin Laden was behind the first WTC bombing, the
 bombing of the Cole and the embassies in Africa-ask yourself, how did we
 not pay attention?  Pay attention now.  Know what is going on in our
 world.  All we have is hope, unity and the ability to open our eyes.
 Open them.

 With much love,
x





 Dear Friends,
 The following was sent to me by my friend Tamim Ansary.  Tamim is an
 Afghani-American writer.  He is also one of the most brilliant people I
 know in this life.  When he writes, I read.  When he talks, I listen.
 Here is his take on Afghanistan and the whole mess we are in.
 *  x


 Dear Gary and whoever else is on this email thread:

 I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the
 Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would
 mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this
 atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What
 else can we do?"  Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing
 whether we "have the belly to do what must be done."

 And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am
 from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've
 never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who
 will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing.  I speak as one
 who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind
 that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York.  I
 agree that something must be done about those monsters.  But the Taliban
 and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan.  They're not even the  government of
 Afghanistan.  The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics  who took
 over Afghanistan in 1997.

 Bin Laden is a political criminal with a  plan.  When you think Taliban,
 think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think  Hitler. And when you think
 "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration
 camps."   It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with
 this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators.  They
 would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and
 clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their
 country.  Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the
 Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated,
 suffering.

 A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000
 disabled orphans in Afghanistan-a country with no economy, no food.
 There are millions of widows.  And the Taliban has been burying these
 widows alive in mass graves.  The soil is littered with land mines, the
 farms were all destroyed by the Soviets.  These are a few of the reasons
 why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban.

 We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone
 Age.  Trouble is, that's been done.  The Soviets took care of it
 already.  Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering.  Level
 their houses?  Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble?  Done.
 Eradicate their hospitals?  Done.  Destroy their infrastructure?  Cut
 them off from medicine and health care?  Too late.  Someone already did
 all that.  New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs.  Would
 they at  least get the Taliban?  Not likely.

 In today's Afghanistan, only the  Taliban eat, only they have the means
 to move around.  They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get
 some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't
 even have wheelchairs.  But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs
 wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific
 thing.  Actually it would only be making common cause with the
 Taliban-by raping once again the people they've been raping all this
 time.  So what else is there?  What can be done, then?

 Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin
 Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having
 the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of
 having the belly to kill as many as needed.  Having the belly to
 overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our
 heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying.
 And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through
 Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout.  It's much bigger than that folks.
 Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through
 Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would
 have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by?  You see
 where I'm going.

 We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West.  And guess
 what: that's Bin Laden's program.  That's exactly what he wants.  That's
 why he did this.  Read his speeches and statements.  It's all right
 there.  He really believes Islam would beat the west.  It might seem
 ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and
 the West, he's got a billion soldiers.  If the west wreaks a holocaust
 in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose,
 that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view.  He's probably wrong,
 in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war
 would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours.
 Who has the belly for that?  Bin Laden does.  Anyone else?

 Tamim Ansary


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